Greedy MPs endanger faith in democracy

by Greg McDonald

As opposition ministers become embroiled in the expenses scandal and the complicity of all sides of the political class is established, a furious but unrepresented public is today more than at any time disenfranchised, and left feeling betrayed by democracy.

Yes, the system and the culture stink and should be immediately and radically overhauled. But make no mistake – we come to this perilous pass not by a dodgy system or a faceless culture, but by the wrong choices of individual MPs.

Yet if you think we’re just back in 1997, at the fag-end of John Major’s sleaze-hit government, think again – because this is far worse.

In 1997 Tony Blair could sweep to an election landslide on the promise of being “whiter than white”. But today it’s not merely the Government but the entire political class which has lost its moral authority. The danger in 1997 was to Michael Portillo’s safe seat – today it’s to our faith in British democracy.

Few honourable options remain – but they do remain. Individual MPs like Blears and Letwin could salvage what little honour they have left, resign as ministers and announce they will stand down at the general election. Where they don’t, their leaders could fire them, or their constituency parties deselect them.

But far from quitting the democratic process, we disgusted voters should remember why democracy, for all that it’s been betrayed in this revolting scandal, remains the best political system we have – because ultimately, unlike other systems, in a democracy you and I can vote the corrupt out.

Comments

[Anon]

What about the other countries who now see this Parliament whose standards are no better than the third world countries they dictate to.

They have brought shame upon a once proud nation. How much more of this are we to take from these people?

[les lee]

you are so right john..
the LAW says that ignorance of any law is inadmissable as a mitigating factor.......
Q.E.D.... mp,s

[John Holt]

We all expect to hear about corrupt governments and politicians in places like Zimbabwe, or Laos, or Burma, or similar third world countries. Now we must add the United Kingdom to that list. The UK Parliament is morally corrupt, and in many instances probably illegal acts have taken place. The MP's who have made these claims should be aware that saying it was a mistake, and paying money back, is not enough. Not by a long way. The worrying thing is that Parliament can no longer be trusted.

[Xena]

Dave Callaghan

I like that phrase 'ignorance in the eye of the law' because Jack Straw whose trade is the law is getting forgotten in all this.

Jack Straw has also been caught with his very big snout in the trough, early doors, among other things he allegedly got 50% off his council tax and claimed back 100% from taxpayers.

Let's not forget what he owes, It's time he was brought to the forefront again and examined openly.

[arymas]

The B.N.P doesn't look so bad now,in comparison to Labour, and the Conservatives, does it ?

[arymas]

I shall vote, as,is my democratic duty, and right ! But I shall give my vote to the most obscure no-hoper there, or I will destroy my ballot paper ! {Probably the latter, I think }

[jamie h]

its a joke that these thiefs will get off with this and they will nothing will happen a couple of them will get the sack then it will be swept under the carpet. they all should people and are struggling 2 bring up familys paying most of there pay out on tax and these clowns wasting it on lining there pockets.no 1s going 2 ever trust them get the bnp in at least they might do something good for british people.. and i am not rasist before anyone starts.

[johnc]

It would have been interesting to have seen how much tony blair ripped us off for but low and behold all his claims have been shredded surprised!!

[Daisy May]

WITH REGARD TO HAZEL BLEARS - What you should remember is that she makes the gesture of paying back the equivalent of the Capital Gains Tax on the sale of a house purchased with a lot of help from the taxpayer BUT Capital Gains Tax is only 18% of the profit on the sale, so she HAS STILL pocketted over £70,000 of your money.

[Dave Callaghan]

Ah! They are all so desperate to give back the money. All been caught with their fingers in the till. All have really good excuses. What's that about ignorance in the eye of the law. Sack and prosecute.

[les lee]

russell
my posts were exclusively designed to express concerns that scottish mp.s are allowed to british politics and yet english politicians are not allowed in scotlands
the scots/ welsh and irish peoples have and always will be welcomed into england and therefore their reasons for coming to wherever they wish to come is an unassailable right and not an excuse.
the initial thoughts of this blog was the historical reasons that scottish POLITICIANS...... historically have the destruction of ENGLAND as one of their main priorities whilst in a position of power within the BRITISH political spectrum .

[Russell]

les lee.....who's muddying the waters, I have clearly stated that the Scots should have no say in who governs England, you were the one who chose to differentiate the politics by relating it to the Scots.
For the other clever ones.....the reason so many Scots move to England is like in the case of myself......via an approach and invitation to supply seemingly what business or organisations find difficulty finding closer to home.

[Paul]

As the simpering Hazel Blears sits in her corner , pulls out a cheque for thirteen grand and says " What a good girl am I " , does she not , like many of her colleague MPs on all sides of the House ,also owe interest for undeclared income to HM revenue ?

[les lee]

russell
you seem to be confusing scottish mp,s with the mr and mrs ordinary scot that are most welcome "down south" as you put it !
a discussion about the rights and wrongs upon who governs us is being diluted if you choose to purposely muddy the waters .. so to speak

[Anon]

Russell

Are you related to Dowding?

This was the right man in the right place at the right time,

[Les Lee]

So what you are saying then is that the Scots who moved South into England really didn't care about the people they are governing as long as their kids were fed and clothed then the devil can take the hindmost?

[les lee]

possibly there is no god buthey thats a choice of thought open to all of humanity ....... i saw this many years ago in a small village in wales where the mines had been closed
" it may be beautiful here but an outstanding place of natural beauty doesnt feed my children ""

[Les Lee]

Les Lee

God doesn't exist but if you could describe Scotland in such a way then why are so many Scots moving south?

[les lee]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with scotland ..... in fact it could be described as gods own country and when the sun shines on scotland it can hold its own among all the other holiday destinations in the world .......

[Les Lee]

Les Lee

What about all the other foreigners or should I say those MP's with foreign names. We can't vote in their ethnic country's policies so why should they be allowed to vote on ours.

It's time we took back England for the English and gave everybody else the boot.

[Russell]

Russell

Air Chief Marshal Caswell Tremenheere Dowding, 1st Baron Dowding GCB, GCVO, CMG (24 April 1882 – 15 February 1970) was a British officer in the Royal Air Force. He was the commander of RAF Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain.

The Dowding family moved to England and at the age of 15 Hugh Dowding entered Winchester College where he continued his education.

Russell just like the rest of them Dowding moved to England for the rich pickings.

One has just got to stop and ask what's wrong with Scotland?

[les lee]

now russell ...
i think you will find that a massive number of indigenous scots were not only responsible for the defeat at culloden but as well for the highland clearances. contrary of course to the propaganda put out by those that lost out .
of course you are correct inasmuch that it was the stupid english who were brainwashed ( by blair.. lol )into thinking labour could provide utopia for the nation istead of realising blair was only interested in making sure people of his ilk would inherit utopia .
we older generation though have always been aware of the dangers of landslide political victories because it is the overwhelming landslide victories that always result in dictatorship
as there is always a dearth of an opposition worthy of the name

[Shafted]

Les Lee

Tony Blair is a Scot
Born 6 May 1953 (1953-05-06
(age 56)
Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

[Russell]

les lee.......I agree that the Scots should have no say on English matters, that is only fair.......I also agree that Brown, Darling, Martin etc are prats........so what are all the other English MPs (the vast majority) doing about it.......that's right they are too busy spending tax payers money on swimming pools and tennis courts......there is the real answer matey.
You may also like to know that it was a Scot (Dowding) that sorted out the poorly run RAF when it was only days from collapse during WW2........how would you have liked speaking German. Also, if you want to point fingers then there is plenty of evidence still remaining (hundreds of abandoned crofts) of the Highland Clearances.........Scots driven out of their homes by guess who.....the English.
Anyhow, given that less than 10% of the electorate are Scottish......who do you think voted this bunch of chancers in and who forced the electorate into taking on levels of debt driven by greed and irresponsibility.......nobody but the electorate themselves, 90% of whom are guess again.......English.....matey.

[Kitty]

P.S.
This is the stuff of which revolutions are made!

[Kitty]

What shocks me most is that unrepentant MPs are grudgingly paying back because they have been caught out - not because they see they have done wrong!

Hazel Blears' interview yesterday was a study in annoyance. She'd discussed it with her family and she recognised (but did not understand) the anger of her constituents (who she has ripped off) and are really so dear to her. And so she would pay back the Capital Gains tax that she SHOULD have paid but didn't. Here is the cheque. No one asked her to do this - she thought it up all by herself, to restore the trust of her beloved constituents. (But she was quite within her rights not to, she said).
They just don't get it, do they?

Yesterday I thought 'at least David Cameron is clean' and then later I read that he'd had the gall to charge me for clearing the wisteria off his house! And now he is coming down on his MPs. It's all too late, isn't it?

I applaud Paul's post:
"Posted by: Paul | 13 May 2009 at 00:39

No more " second " homes . Furnished flats made available within a bus or tube ride away from Westminster . Meal coupons and second class rail travel or Ryanair back to their constituencies . Income Tax returns and expense claims published annually .....a small price to pay for the generous pensions we taxpayers provide for them ."

Flats provided for the use of MPs has been something we thought should happen ages ago. Simple, really.

In a time when many people in this country are losing their houses, jobs etc. it is taking the mick. They've played the system, it has been morally deplorable and lacking in honesty and self-discipline. And now they are caught, they are not apologising and resigning but bleating 'it was within the rules'. Do they not have consciences? I don't trust any of them, and I shan't vote for any of them.

[les lee]

hey russell ....
almost all the labour cabinet that have sway over labour policy making are scots .. so there is your answer !!
the scots can vote on english matters but the english cannot vote on scottish matters .......
even the biggest traitor known ... ie tony blair..was pro scots and therefore what i wrote about the scottish way of defeating their old foe was / is/ and always will be the whole truth of scottish politics matey

[Paul]

...and this in the 'Mother of All Parliaments' !. Goodness knows what they're all up to in Brussels , Strasbourg and Luxembourg .

[Paul]

No more " second " homes . Furnished flats made available within a bus or tube ride away from Westminster . Meal coupons and second class rail travel or Ryanair back to their constituencies . Income Tax returns and expense claims published annually .....a small price to pay for the generous pensions we taxpayers provide for them . And if they don't like it ...they can try the Job Centre or join one of Brown's " back to work schemes " , but they'd better hurry before 2.5 million get there before them .

[Dotty]

Lest we forget.

[DAVE CALLAGHAN]

Within the next two or three days another crisis will miraculously happen to be reported by the media. This will take the heat off all these thieves in parliament. The boys in the backroom are already hatching this plan in the hope that the public will forget this thievery. We the people should not let this happen. Those that rip the working person off should be made to pay back the misappropriated funds and then resign. WATCH THE NEWS IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

[Anon]

Russell

Gordon Brown
Tony Blair
Alastair Darling

That's 30 English you have got to come up with.

[Tarquin B. Linden-Farquarson-Smythe]

I think this a carefully orchestrated stunt by the labour party. They knew the information was coming out anyway so the first 'leaks' were Jack Straw and his 'oversight' on the council tax, swiftly apologised for and repaid. Then Gord Almighty himself and his thrifty cleaner sharing scheme with his brother - the contract for which was hastily produced.
Then... when the public have been wound up and whipped into a frenzy of righteous indignation.. here come the tories, with their chandeliers moats and swimming pools. It all seems so staged and stereotypical.
Clever certainly but manipulative. Like everything else this rotten government does.

[Russell]

les lee.....what makes you think the Scots would waste their energy trying to "destroy England" especially when the English MPs are doing a marvellous job of that on their own......typical English, inflated ideas about themselves and their crowded concrete jugle......name me some Scots MPs trying to destroy England and for every one I will name you at least 10 English ones.

[Shafted]

"OFF WITH THEIR HEADS"

[Anon]

While the Police are investigating the leak of this information how about them investigating the MP's for misappropriation of funds?

[les lee]

brown and his toadies are hanging on to power until the job of destroying england has been completed and no future " puppet government" can reverse what they have instigated !
historically the scots have always colluded with the french in an attempt to destroy this nation and this government are no exeption !!
are we english about to give the scots the satisfaction of doing to this country what hitler could not ??
the fate of old england is in our hands citizens ....... and dont forget it !!
power to the people........ and not to those that would destroy us

[Mike]

It's time to get organised. Make sure that you're registered to vote and find out the name of any candidate except Labour.
Then wait for the day and do your bit for the country and for democracy.

[Kevin]

UKIP BNP LIB DEMS HERE WE COMEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Kevin]

Camaron resign ?????????

[Dot Wilkinson]

How do we go about getting a vote of no confidence to oust this government?

[Louise]

What really needs to happen is a call for a vote of NO Confidence. It happened with the Heath Govt in 1974, but this Govt must be far far worse than that!! How come they get away with so much, we should be allowed to vote them out now, not wait for another whole year, while they continue to lining their pockets. However, if nothing is done this time round, then what ever party is voted in, it will happen again, because it happened before and no action taken against the offenders. This is not a democracy we are living in! we are being robbed by the very people who are supposed to serve us. We will never restore the economy at this rate, and people losing their jobs all the time and finding it difficult to get back into employment. The only other thing for the public to do is to take to the streets and protest to demand sacking of people helping themselves, make them pay back the money so that it can be ploughed back into vital public services. Stop robbing the people!!

[Anon]

Even Kenneth Clarke is a euroskeptic and he left this country and labour with a lot of lolly which labour spent.

Now foreign nationals own our water, our energy companies with France building nuclear power stations and sell even more of our energy back to us.

We don't own Terry's chocolate or even HP Sauce anymore.

ASDA is American, Aldi ? owner. It's time we took responsibility for ourselves. It's all gone. You may find this comforting but I don't.

With so many non-English members of parliament we can't even get a decent bill on immigration passed.

It's time that we were focussed in the right direction. You might enjoy Britons being turned into a basted race but I find it objectionable.

Start thinking out of this mess.

[Anon]

At least we would own our own water instead of France owning it and the foreign power companies wouldn't be selling our energy supplies back to us at inflated profits.

We don't even own HP Sauce anymore.

Whilst I agree with some of what you have said we need these parties to be evident in the next government.

[Lexx]

Anon

The trouble you have with parties like UKIP and BNP is that yes, they are strongly focused on one point, and that's it. So we get independance from Europe and or an all-British Britain. After that then what? I suspect they'd (somehow) Be even less than the government we have now.

[Jason]

Greedy, grubby little people, indeed.

But I agree with Andy. This is not so much a matter of criminal intent to steal from taxpayers, but simply money- grubbing and criminal incompetence being accepted by MPs and the government as normal behaviour.

And why not? These people have spent the past 12 years doling out taxpayers' hard-earned money to anyone who holds their hand out. A few million pounds extracted from the pot by MPs is a tiny drop in an ocean of corruption.

[sodit]

"I made a mistake" not good enough. I said that when I was caught speeding - I got fined. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. The Fraud Squad should be involved and some prosecutions should follow. The elastic cash cow inherited in 1997 has been stretched so far the elastic has broken and we are all skint

[sodit]

IF THE ANSWERS LABOUR THEN IT MUST HAVE BEEN A BLOODY STUPID QUESTION !!!

[trudi gordon]

weve worked hard to bring up our 2 sons to work hard and be honest what do we say to them when they see our so called honourable men and women stealing from us all, what a disgrace they are and they should all go, if any of us were caught doing what they have done,were be in prison! shame on them all.

[Andy]

The real problem with the MPs' expenses system, as with most problems, is poor management.
It is the management (ie the government) who should put in place and manage a fair system of expenses for MPs and it has clearly failed to do so. The MPs' themselves live in a world where billions of pounds are thrown around and wasted on one gimmicky policy after another and in that environment they lose any concept of the value of money so claim their expenses without a second thought as to where the money comes from. I can understand their bovine point of view that if someone approves their claims then their claims must be OK.

Brown proves the point that he has no concept of either management or the value of money by saying that the answer to the waste is to create further waste by paying £600,000 per year to audit MPs' claims. My own experience in the private sector of a properly formulated and well-managed expenses system covering a high volume of claims for world-wide travel and accommodation costs is that the expenses of 600+ MPs could be easily monitored and administered by just one part-time admin assistant at a cost of no more than £8000,00 per year.

With that in mind, it's no surprise that Brown and his cronies have bankrupted the country with their incompetence.

[Ken]

Is it a case of Animal Farm ? whereby some pigs are more equal than others ? These double standards MPs cheat us, whilst they are milking us for as much as they can, on the pretext they think that they are not doing anything wrong. They should repay the taxpayers, this should be our battle cry.

[Anon]

Does it matter as long as it isn't Labour and they are indigenous. Time to look seriously as all parties for the next election.

[Anon]

Lexx

BNP, UKIP

[Dot]

Did the water board tell Letwin whose money to spend when getting the pipe repaired?

Just which down train does Letwin think the electorate came up on?

[Lexx]

Vote them out? The trouble with voting someone out is that you need to have someone to vote in in their stead. Any suggestions?

[mike]

I think that what the electorate have to grasp in all this corruption is that MP's are not very intelligent people! The reason I say this is because they talk as if we, the public, are a little stupid. Letwin, for example, on being rumbled on the theft of our money to repair a pipe under his tennis court states that he only did so because the water company told him to!! How condescending is that??
The only way to deal with this lot is for their paymasters (us, the electorate)to have a say in whether they remain in the job or not and I don't mean at the ballot boxes. If these thieves, because that is what they are, were working in jobs that you and I do......they would have been sacked and proscecuted.
Members of Parliament....you treat the people of this country with utter contempt..you are a disgrace!

[Wat Tyler]

To the barricades!

[Caroline]

Brown only apologised because the public is uniting against these cheats and liars. No good blaming the systems, its on your watch, and it is clear that no one wanted to clean up the system for the past 12 years because it is too lucrative. If not for the Daily Telegraph, the taxpayers would have carried on paying for their cars, boats, and god knows what else. It is a case of Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burns.

[jackie]

Why cant the government buy up an old hotel or such and insist that as part of the job mp's live in it. This would prove to be far cheaper for the country in the long run and would save this on going saga. Then there would be no need for bags of manure, bath plugs, male mp's claiming Tampax etc.
Make it like students accomodation where you have your en suite room with broadband, heating and lighting provided the other luxuries can be bought and paid for buy the mp themselves the same as we have to!

[Peter]

It won't wash, Greg.

Brown's fudging of the issue by "apologising on behalf of all politicians of all parties" is like Blair apologising for the Iraq war "on behalf of all the British people".

Despite the best efforts of the BBC, Guardian, Orange, etc to pretend otherwise, it is always the people at the top who have the ability to change what is wrong if they choose to do so. In this case Brown and his gang have been at the top for 12 years and they chose to do nothing. Too busy filling their boots with taxpayers' money, I expect.

But you're right on one thing. All decent people will do the decent thing and VOTE THEM OUT!!

[Jo]

If I have to listen to one more smug unrepentant MP saying it was the system that was at fault i think I'll put my fist through my TV
Nobody twisted their greedy thieving arms did they.
Another diversion tactic they're fond of, is to claim that the British public don't want to hear about this anymore. 'People want to talk about real issues like hospitals and schools' is a typical soundbite. Well excuse me but no I don't. I want to know exactly how much my MP saw fit to steal from the tax payer. Every bath plug porno movie kit-kat bag of manure tin of dog food. The British public haven't been so fired up about politicians in living memory.

[jamie h]

it stinks the hole lot of them
we should of had a vote before gorden brown got pm who the people wanted in 1 eyed scotch clown. i would rather vote for the bnp than gorden brown.
countrys ran buy criminals.
i dont think i will ever vote again as they all in it 2 line there pockets nothing else get the lot of them out.

[John D.]

At the next election, all honest voters should vote out all sitting MPs, as they have been fiddling, or have condoned fiddling by keeping quiet. We must vote in people who have had some success in business, or been in steady employment for a long time, and someone who vows to be straight, and set an example for us to follow. Someone who when asked a question that he or she cant answer, says, I dont know, but I will find out. The MPs that we have must go, the lot of them, and we the people of this once proud nation can say WE HAVE CLEANED UP OUR OWN HOUSE, and BEWARE WHEN ACTING IN OUR NAME.

[les lee]

all the news this week is focused upon the self serving ...... and lots would say criminal fraud... being entered into by the british politicians , and rightly so ... however it is not only the politicians that have dragged themselves into disrepute.. let us not forget the criminal activities that the other" bastions"and defenders of our democracy... i.e the police get up to!
they , the police , know just how lucrative being in the force can be .. drug squad, vice squad , even traffic police can easily get a cut from the activities of the criminal fraternity ... so do not forget that the old sayinf of " who guards the guards " has never been so apt within the british isles as it is today with all the closing of ranks in an effort to divert the fraud investigators away from the guilty !!!